Okay, so talking with @IndianaBlueJay about how much Linux sucks to install, which I agree but for slightly differing resaons. So here is my counter points. :)
On the driver issue, the economic issue is that the % of people that use linux total isn’t enough to justify the costs. The number of distributions doesn’t really matter because the driver “should” would with any distro using a standard kernal (though again this doesn’t mean they are up to date but any mainstream distro will be.) Now it may not be packaged nicely but pretty much for any Red Hat or Debian will have a something setup for them, or using other tools that can convert them.
Part of the prob is that if these vendors were more open themselves then they could use each other to reduce the development costs or even open it up for others to write them from the community. They are so worried about their “secrets” that they won’t though. If they would just accept that 99% of what they do isn’t special or even actually original it would help but they don’t like to believe that everyone else can figure out the obvious.
As for the comments on Windows having security vulnerabilities, the only one that I know of is the stupid users. The problem is that everyone blames windows that they have spyware but guess what, they installed it themselves when they hit yes to every popup and open every attachment. I wish all these idiots would buy Macs so then Mac could be the “most vulnerable” system. Yes were there things that were related to parts of windows being compromised, yes, but that really isn’t the case anymore and hasn’t been for a while. Most holes are created by software they install. Recently I had Google Chrome try to install a virus on my computer all by itself. Luckily Sophos caught it instantly. Chrome basically let some website I went to redirect me to another site and began downloading a “fake AV” program without ever prompting me if it was cool. Luckily I am able to recognize this but most users can’t. (I will also say the not running as admin is a good step, but after having watched someone type in the admin password after prompted by an install without even thinking it doesn’t help that much.)
Back to Linux though, I think the bigger problem is that people expect that it should just work, when really, if they had to install windows on a random machine they would probably have tons of issues too. And without having a main stream distributor pushing Linux you won’t get people seeing it working without thought like other systems. You shouldn’t have to get “under the hood” but you have to put everyone on a level playing field to start and comparing to a system that was basically installed by someone else who has put way more thought into it isn’t a fair comparison.
I will start off by saying I agree it would be very nice if hardware manufacturers would be more open about the engineering specifics to allow for people to write drivers/interfacing software more easily. It would also be nice if companies would share information and resources to aid in development for open source alternatives on the desktop. So we see eye to eye on that wish. But there is one solid truth you are forgetting, companies are in business to make money. So whether or not you think their designs are original and what they develop is something revolutionary they need to protect or not, they are going to protect what they feel is their intellectual property in pursuit of the almighty dollar. To that end they are going to put their resources into developing their products for the largest market possible that will give them the biggest return on their investment in the shortest time possible. In computer terms they probably even look at shorter time tables simply because of the fact that hardware development evolves so quickly and they have to strike while the iron is hot to sell as much as they can. Keep in mind I am not agreeing with the way businesses view the world, it is just a cold hard fact of capitalism. I deal with it everyday where I work in terms of projects we can and can not do. If you can not show a return on investment it doesn’t matter how good the idea is they will not do it. So with the small percentage of the total desktop OS market Linux has right now where is their incentive to put the resources into it? By the way I am not saying I agree with this point of view, just saying I understand it only too well.
On to Microsoft and security. I agree that users are their own worst enemies, but have to tell you Microsoft has not done themselves any favors over the years either. I will give you one of the best examples of where they shot themselves in the foot, Active X controls. Oh yes on the outside they look great, the issue is they create one of the biggest security holes that Microsoft has to deal with. They bridge the gap between the Internet and the OS in a way that they never should have. With this and other technologies they have developed over the years and the fact that each new release of Windows supports most of the legacy technologies good and bad they have created over the years they have armed the very people who like to turn viruses and spyware and malware loose. Lesson here is your mistakes can always come back to haunt you.
By the way I am NOT going to get drawn into a discussion of Windows vs OS X vs Linux, I know better. Each user has their preference and they have their reasons whether or not we agree with them for choosing what they use. Each OS out there has its pluses and minuses and when you use it you have to learn to deal with those things. That being said well i am never going to miss a chance to be a smart ass and hurl a barb or two Microsoft’s direction. :-)
You are right that most people do just expect things to work. One of the greatest engineering design truths I was every taught was that you could have the greatest idea ever, something that would revolutionize the world and that would make life simple for everyone who used it. But if you could not make it easy for people to use and understand it would never get off the drawing board. I like the alternative OSes that are out there. They show a real spirit of innovation and development community spirit you just don’t see much anymore. I do hope as time goes on a main stream distributor will get behind one of the distros and put the spit and polish on it that is needed to get it into the mainstream to compete with Microsoft toe to toe. Guess we will see if a company will come along that can break the current business shortsighted goals of a quick return I described above.
One last point to wrap this up, when did I try to compare the Linux install @cheekiegeek was trying to do to a Windows install? I actually asked her if she was going to try again and encouraged her to do so. I like it when people try new things and step out of the normal day to day existence they live in. I don’t see a thing wrong with her or anyone else having to learn a bit by “getting under the hood”. I do try not to make unfair comparisons, from an engineering standpoint it just gets you into trouble if you do.
It’s fun when you can have in depth discussions with people you pretty much 99% agree with.
I know that we are dealing with companies that are in it for money, it’s more one of those things that I wish they would quit pretending to be “innovative” when they are doing the exact same thing someone else already did. It’s not really about putting resources towards developing for Linux it’s about wanting them to develop smarter. A lot of the problems come about with manufactures who don’t try to keep things closer to the same so they can easily reuse a lot of the driver side things they already have. We aren’t talking about crazy new ideas, most are just tweaks to standard products. A lot of those issues come from them changing vendors who have chips that are different so they can’t be reused. Sometimes you get lucky and one chip is used by a ton of manufactures (my WiFi on my laptop is some off brand, but has same inside as a Belkin that I knew was supported) but a lot of the times it seems to go against us.
Microsoft has patched a lot of the issues with ActiveX and yeah that was a giant mess. But the funny thing is that like most concepts that are jokes and failures originally come back later as being somethnig people want. Google Gears (now dead) was a similar concept because people do want easier access to the OS from the browser. After what I have seen from Chrome I have no doubt Google would have had similar issues come to light with Gears had it gotten more main stream success.
I agree, I’m just anti-zealotry in general. I love being able to take shots at Microsoft whenever possible as well. I also know they don’t deserve all the credit for their problems. All are basically equal in the end and as you said comes down to personal preference. My anti Mac sentiment is more anti “Mac Fags” then OSX. Mac peeps love to make stupid claims about why OSX is better but most are just their ignorance of other OS’s, old arguments, or actually true for Macs as well. I personally have Win 7, Vista, and XP running with Ubuntu 8/9 (some dual boot, some not) and sadly now have a Macbook on my desk at work. Debian is my server OS of choice, that I don’t play with other things cause I like having that consistent. If I could pull it off I’d go all Linux just because I do prefer the environment but I do like my games and they either don’t work or run for crap in Wine. I don’t do much else that requires Windows.
What’s funny, as being a developer who is always working on applications that are ment to make life easier for people, it ususally isn’t how simple you make it but how open the person is to not doing what they currently do anymore. It’s funny when you talk to someone about how you are going to remove the 4 printouts they have to make and hand off to different departments to get something going and they will fight you because of some of the stupidest reasons. It’s more a fight against change then wanting it simpler. Or they are scared they will be no longer needed. :)
It sucked that the Walmart Linux computer didn’t stick around, and their is no real insentive for Dell to switch because windows is basically free (or makes them money) to them with all the preinstalled software they throw on those things. The real big issue is that to the lay person they will never know that Linux is out there all over the place even in user applications. You have a ton of netbooks and the cheap laptop for 3rd world countries that come installed with it. Android and whatever that Chrome OS turns out to be are another example. My next phone will be running linux (Nokia N900 running Maemo which is debian based) but I’m a freak use case that makes that phone leaps and bounds beyond any other phone for someone like me. But in the end, most lay people don’t even know or will ever know that what they are running is linux, which just sucks because there isn’t some giant corp marketing budget for it so they do. If we could get Obama to endorse Ubunutu, maybe then we could get some traction. But he never would because he wouldn’t want to lose all that money. :)
Lastly, I wasn’t saying you were specifically. I was more ranting in general, and probably more directed at @cheeckiegeek but was really more just a general complaining. The idea I’m having for using this site is more to dump my general thoughts, so wasn’t all directed at you. :)